Here's what's wrong with this. Okay, so Nokia is apparently a phone to use, which I don't have. Actually, I don't even know if the Java version will work on the Blackberry. But take it a step further to normal people.
What if they wanted a mobile service like this and the answer to 'Don't have a Nokia?' was something like "I don't know, I have Cingular. (or Verizon or Vodafone or Sprint)"
See the problem? Geek language is speaking, not human language. People may associate their phone with provider. My 8125 never said who made it but Cingular's logo was on it. It was a smartphone made by HTC. But you could buy it retail.
Heh, someone asked me in jest, "Java makes phones?"
Funny when coming from a fellow nerd, not funny if it's your mom, who probably doesn't know what Symbian is. "I have a RAZR"... interesting too, that phones have brands separate from the manufacturer. "Now with Motorola support!" "But I have a RAZR!!!11!! HELP!!!"
Even the providers make the brand of phone less apparent or conscious. I was looking at Sprint's page and they said "Sprint phone xxxx...made by Motorola".
But yeah I'm a geek and it took me forever to remember the model of my last Nokia phone, and in that case I at least knew the brand. The question is how do you change the wording to convey meaning across the geek barrier. What do you reference? Phone name - "Chocolate" "razr", provide pictures, what? That is the challenge.
While I think what you're saying is true for people in the USA, I know it's not for where I am (New Zealand) and I assume it's not for folk in Europe.
The cellular providers here (and there) are a hell of a lot less restrictive than they are in the US.
Over here, if someone is asked what sort of phone they have, most of the time they'll tell you the name of the company that made it, not what network it's on.
How would you suggest that companies like Jaiku, who have phone-based-apps that may be useful to the mainstream user in the US communicate what sort of phone is needed to use the app? (honest question, by the way, not me being an ass - you obviously know the market a lot better than I do :)
Actually, it's more the issue of mentioning the Java OS... that's something I think might be a universal ignorance. I'm in Silicon Valley and don't actually know if my Blackberry is Java-- it's my first one.
And yeah, I can see that it really could go both ways... provider or manufacturer... of all the phones I saw that were here from Japan, I only know them by provider... in my London jaunt, it was fascinating watching the phones hand off to all networks, which was really really fascinating.
My advice? Do apples to apples. Nokia phones now, __ phones later. (manufacturer to manufacturer not manufacturer to OS).
This isn't me nitpicking on Jaiku specifically... our entire space is totally plagued with this. And when I refer to the Walmart Culture, or Walmart 2.0, it's about taking a mainstream approach to language (and interface).
We have minutes to grab the attention and dollars of would-be customers, and if we have to spend time explaining nomenclature, then we face an easily curable problem... the 'second sell'.
Yeah the locking of phones AND the diversity of networks (as in CDMA, TDMA, and GSM) makes the US cellular landscape much different. I can't take my great Nokia GSM phone that worked on AT&T Wireless and use it on Verizon because Verizon runs on a CDMA network. (Not that long ago there were still sections of the USA that only had AMPS coverage as well. I don't know if that has changed or not.)
What I often see is "The following phones are supported' and then it lists them with links to pictures. It still means knowing what phone you have, but at least gives you some visual cues that might help the user figure it out.
I don't think anyone has come up with a good way to convey what runs on what. That is the challenge with a heterogeneous environment - it requires users to know what they have. It gets even messier than just knowing what phone you have - OK someone has a Treo. Is it running Palm OS or Win CE?
Cell phones are still in the high geek era, even as everyone uses them. I could digress into general phone UI and systems we navigate with them, but I will try and stay on topic.
Perhaps other people have better ideas on how to explain what phones run Java.
Goldie, I love talking to clerks inside cell-phone stores, mainly because the simplest things can be plucked out of the vapor of consumer nuance. Who cares the phone was free! (Or pretty durned cheap hehe)
Better yet, all those prepaid ones you can buy at the supermarket so you can txt WHAT UP DAWG. I think it's high geek if you have to think about it from a deeper perspective, which we certainly do.
All they have to do is say, "Now on Nokia, soon on Motorola, Sony Ericsson, and XYZ."
Amen. The newest dimension to blogging.
And thanks for reminding me that I have to go rent another cellphone if I want to have one with me in Europe next month. It will travel in the bag right next to my there-half-useful treo (from Verizon). Ugh.
Hey, it's the 2000's, us sysadmin types are allowed to come out of the back room and to talk to the customers :)
Seriously tho', I know it's a very happy-feely-huggy type attitude, but I honestly think that the best way to find out what's bugging our users is to use the service with them. People are more inclined to be open and helpful to friendly folk than they are 'faceless admins'. Like any social sort of service, Jaiku is pretty much nothing without users - we honestly like you guys, and want to be involved :)
I have a cell phone strictly for when I go out to like conventions. If people call my cell when I'm at home, which is most of the time, I WILL NOT answer it. I refer everyone to my Skype number.
Folks, as this discussion reveals, mobile phone and OS market is very segmented and it's quite a task for application vendor (like Jaiku) to try to communicate things.
If you think that it's nigh to impossible to explain to your mother that Linux, Mac and Windows are different and not all software runs on them, then explaining that on which platform your mobile software runs is ... well, impossible.
For example, we say that Jaiku Mobile for S60 runs on Nokia S60 phones, although it runs on all S60 phones (e.g. few models from Samsung and Panasonic included). But a vast majority of S60 phones are Nokians, so we use a bit specific expression. But saying we support all Nokia phones (without S60 specifier) would be wrong, as Jaiku doesn't run on non-S60 phones...
20 comments so far
"Don't have a Nokia S60 phone? Then stay tuned! The Java version of Jaiku Mobile is currently in private beta. "
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Here's what's wrong with this. Okay, so Nokia is apparently a phone to use, which I don't have. Actually, I don't even know if the Java version will work on the Blackberry. But take it a step further to normal people.
What if they wanted a mobile service like this and the answer to 'Don't have a Nokia?' was something like "I don't know, I have Cingular. (or Verizon or Vodafone or Sprint)"
See the problem? Geek language is speaking, not human language. People may associate their phone with provider. My 8125 never said who made it but Cingular's logo was on it. It was a smartphone made by HTC. But you could buy it retail.
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Heh, someone asked me in jest, "Java makes phones?"
Funny when coming from a fellow nerd, not funny if it's your mom, who probably doesn't know what Symbian is. "I have a RAZR"... interesting too, that phones have brands separate from the manufacturer. "Now with Motorola support!" "But I have a RAZR!!!11!! HELP!!!"
We must pay attention to this.
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Even the providers make the brand of phone less apparent or conscious. I was looking at Sprint's page and they said "Sprint phone xxxx...made by Motorola". But yeah I'm a geek and it took me forever to remember the model of my last Nokia phone, and in that case I at least knew the brand. The question is how do you change the wording to convey meaning across the geek barrier. What do you reference? Phone name - "Chocolate" "razr", provide pictures, what? That is the challenge.
2 years, 6 months ago by goldiekatsu
While I think what you're saying is true for people in the USA, I know it's not for where I am (New Zealand) and I assume it's not for folk in Europe.
The cellular providers here (and there) are a hell of a lot less restrictive than they are in the US.
Over here, if someone is asked what sort of phone they have, most of the time they'll tell you the name of the company that made it, not what network it's on.
How would you suggest that companies like Jaiku, who have phone-based-apps that may be useful to the mainstream user in the US communicate what sort of phone is needed to use the app? (honest question, by the way, not me being an ass - you obviously know the market a lot better than I do :)
2 years, 6 months ago by malach
Actually, it's more the issue of mentioning the Java OS... that's something I think might be a universal ignorance. I'm in Silicon Valley and don't actually know if my Blackberry is Java-- it's my first one.
And yeah, I can see that it really could go both ways... provider or manufacturer... of all the phones I saw that were here from Japan, I only know them by provider... in my London jaunt, it was fascinating watching the phones hand off to all networks, which was really really fascinating.
My advice? Do apples to apples. Nokia phones now, __ phones later. (manufacturer to manufacturer not manufacturer to OS).
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Not to confuse anything further but Sun just announced JavaFX Mobile - a Linux+Java platform to change the world - http://www.sun.com/software/javafx/mobile
2 years, 6 months ago by talios
This isn't me nitpicking on Jaiku specifically... our entire space is totally plagued with this. And when I refer to the Walmart Culture, or Walmart 2.0, it's about taking a mainstream approach to language (and interface).
We have minutes to grab the attention and dollars of would-be customers, and if we have to spend time explaining nomenclature, then we face an easily curable problem... the 'second sell'.
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Thanks Eric, I'll pass that on to the Finland part of the team (they handle all the copy, I'm the sysadmin type).
2 years, 6 months ago by malach
Yeah the locking of phones AND the diversity of networks (as in CDMA, TDMA, and GSM) makes the US cellular landscape much different. I can't take my great Nokia GSM phone that worked on AT&T Wireless and use it on Verizon because Verizon runs on a CDMA network. (Not that long ago there were still sections of the USA that only had AMPS coverage as well. I don't know if that has changed or not.)
What I often see is "The following phones are supported' and then it lists them with links to pictures. It still means knowing what phone you have, but at least gives you some visual cues that might help the user figure it out.
I don't think anyone has come up with a good way to convey what runs on what. That is the challenge with a heterogeneous environment - it requires users to know what they have. It gets even messier than just knowing what phone you have - OK someone has a Treo. Is it running Palm OS or Win CE?
Cell phones are still in the high geek era, even as everyone uses them. I could digress into general phone UI and systems we navigate with them, but I will try and stay on topic.
Perhaps other people have better ideas on how to explain what phones run Java.
2 years, 6 months ago by goldiekatsu
Wow, try having this conversation on twitter :)
2 years, 6 months ago by ChristianBurns
Goldie, I love talking to clerks inside cell-phone stores, mainly because the simplest things can be plucked out of the vapor of consumer nuance. Who cares the phone was free! (Or pretty durned cheap hehe)
Better yet, all those prepaid ones you can buy at the supermarket so you can txt WHAT UP DAWG. I think it's high geek if you have to think about it from a deeper perspective, which we certainly do.
All they have to do is say, "Now on Nokia, soon on Motorola, Sony Ericsson, and XYZ."
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
And malach, I think it rocks you are out here and mingling. :)
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Hah I just re-read Goldie's post. "What kinda phone you got?" "I got me a CHOCO"
I feel like I'm about to hurl a Sanrio character out of my Pokedex at someone. xD
2 years, 6 months ago by ericrice
Amen. The newest dimension to blogging. And thanks for reminding me that I have to go rent another cellphone if I want to have one with me in Europe next month. It will travel in the bag right next to my there-half-useful treo (from Verizon). Ugh.
2 years, 6 months ago by LEMills
Hey, it's the 2000's, us sysadmin types are allowed to come out of the back room and to talk to the customers :)
Seriously tho', I know it's a very happy-feely-huggy type attitude, but I honestly think that the best way to find out what's bugging our users is to use the service with them. People are more inclined to be open and helpful to friendly folk than they are 'faceless admins'. Like any social sort of service, Jaiku is pretty much nothing without users - we honestly like you guys, and want to be involved :)
2 years, 6 months ago by malach
I don't have a Blackberry or a mobile phone. I'm retarded. I used to have a cell phone, but people kept calling me on it.
2 years, 6 months ago by Prok
Prok don't discount the tards-they(we) are many!
2 years, 6 months ago by bbluesman
I have a cell phone strictly for when I go out to like conventions. If people call my cell when I'm at home, which is most of the time, I WILL NOT answer it. I refer everyone to my Skype number.
2 years, 6 months ago by moomoney
Folks, as this discussion reveals, mobile phone and OS market is very segmented and it's quite a task for application vendor (like Jaiku) to try to communicate things.
If you think that it's nigh to impossible to explain to your mother that Linux, Mac and Windows are different and not all software runs on them, then explaining that on which platform your mobile software runs is ... well, impossible.
For example, we say that Jaiku Mobile for S60 runs on Nokia S60 phones, although it runs on all S60 phones (e.g. few models from Samsung and Panasonic included). But a vast majority of S60 phones are Nokians, so we use a bit specific expression. But saying we support all Nokia phones (without S60 specifier) would be wrong, as Jaiku doesn't run on non-S60 phones...
See, this leads to chaos. Simplest thing is just to list all supported models: http://jaiku.com/mobile/s60/models
2 years, 6 months ago by teemu